Fair Tax Nation

Replace All Federal Taxes on Income with the Fair Tax Act , HR 25 and S 122

Comment by Frank Gilbert  Not very happy with the debate tonight as Herman Cain came out with a "999" tax reform plan? What the heck is that and what happened to the FairTax??? I had hopes that some other candidate would step up and mention the FairTax, but no such luck. Lets let these guys know we want the FairTax.

There are many people that are having concerns that Herman Cain is no longer supporting the FairTax.  That is the farthest thing from the Truth.

 

People need to read the 9-9-9 economic plan.  Here is a link to it.  http://www.hermancain.com/wp-content/themes/hc/images/economicgrowt...

 

The plan includes two phases.  The first phase Herman is offering to the "super committee" to implement this Fall before Thanksgiving.  The idea is to start the country's economic turnaround.  It is to lower the tax rates to a 9% business/corporate income tax rate; a 9% personal income tax rate; and a 9% national sales tax.  This will eliminate all the payroll taxes and the vast majority of tax loopholes.  Yes it is a flat income tax program.  It is a taste of what many opponents to the FairTax have been proposing on the surface.  The important thing to remember this is a temporary phase that can be put in place very quickly.

 

Phase two which the ground work that would be started will go into effect when Herman Cain becomes President (if adopted ahead of the elections) or shortly after phase one is put in place, is to educate the Congress and American People about HR-25 (as written).  It will take some time to do this but to get the FairTax passed into law.  There are many things that will need to be done before HR-25 goes into effect so there is a period of time that is required.  Once the Federal government passes the FT, there are 36 State Legislatures that will have to meet and modify their state income tax laws. (There no longer will be an adjusted gross income on 1040 forms!) 

 

The earliest that HR-25 could become effective would be January 1st, 2015.    This plan is a stepping stone to getting HR-25 as the law of the land.

 

Once we get all the FairTax Advocates to understand the 9-9-9 economic plan as Herman Cain has proposed it, we will be able to calm the fears of everyone else.

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The problem I see with this is that temporary things tend to become permanent. This would give Congress exactly what they want, a sales tax to provide stable revenue and an income tax that they can sell loopholes to their friends with. It does not matter what Herman Cain wants to have happen, they get this we are finished.

Cain's 9-9-9 plan is anathema to The Fair Tax as it will impose another income tax. Moreover it is an open ended process putting implementation of The Fair Tax on the back burner for an indefinite period of time. We have worked too hard and too long for further delays to implement The Fair Tax. It is clear Cain is trying to play both ends against the middle to garner maximum support by both those who support and oppose The Fair Tax.

We already have 71 cosponsors in Congress. If AFFT were to accept this proposal, it would essentially eliminate those cosponsors and force us to start from scratch with Cain's proposal and then do the same at some undetermined date in the future with The Fair Tax thereby taking far longer to pass The Fair Tax than to proceed with our current plan. AFFT and the grassroots movement need to make it clear to Cain we will not support this deceptive proposal. To do so would defeat the purpose of passing The Fair Tax ASAP. I will be very disappointed if Fair tax supporters accept this scam.

I agree with Cary. Temporary is the new permanent in DC, and I'm really sorry I have to bring up partisanship in here, but we all know what happens when Democrats in Congress "promise" to give the Republicans something later for a favor now. It just doesn't play out the way it was supposed to.

The other big problem I see is that HC wants to impose an income and a sales tax simultaneously. Is that not going against everything that every FairTaxer stands for? Or am not understanding that correctly?
when obama pelosi and reid were suggesting they would ease up on the corporate and personal income tax if they got a national sales tax, as fairtaxers we all reacted in outrage. now herman cain suggests the exact same thing, as if giving these delinquents a national sales tax on top of income is going to suddenly make them responsible for the first time in history, and it's like all the fairtaxers are turning into stepford wives. duuuhhhhh okkkkkkkk. what in the history of this country would lead anyone to believe giving them a national sales tax on top of income is going to lead to responsibility? this isn't a step toward the fairtax. this is giving our enemies exactly what they want. within one liberal legislative session this 999 would return to 28 35 and whatever they wanted to jack the sales up to. cain has gone rogue. the man is off the reservation. wish i never contributed to his campaign. there is a reason why fairtax has it written into the bill that it can not be put into effect without repealing the income tax. pull out that lynchpin, the whole thing falls apart. cain just yanked out the lynchpin holding it together in exchange for a promise he would do the right thing later. i'll kindly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today. one guy gets to unilaterally add a 999 "phase" to a bill we all have been rallying around for years? who does he think he is?

If we enacted a Fair Tax on top of the Income Tax, it would be politically impossible to eliminate the income tax at a later date. Even a Constitutional Amendment would not work, if it could pass.  In fact, it would take a total collapse of the government to have a possible fighting chance to eliminate a dual income/sales tax. 

One of concerns of people who are reluctant to support Fair Tax is the fact that government will take every opportunity to raise revenues with the least possible pain for them.  If a tax is already in place, they do not want to lose the tools that are available to them.  

Of the Presidential candidates, Michelle Bachman has made this point clear.  

OK, since I've learned of Mr. Cain's "9-9-9" tax plan, I've had the same feelings and concerns that each of the comments about this issue here reflect.

 

A politician or prospective politician can say they will do this or that, but when it comes down to it there are too many variables, agendas, and people in the way to "transition" to the FairTax in the way that Herman's plan is supposedly attempting to accomplish.

 

Herman, as many times as I've heard you sub for Boortz and mention your support for the FairTax, I thought you were better than this.  The bottom line is...A 9-9-9 TYPE PLAN WILL NOT WORK!

 

We, the people, have seen too many unbroken promises by politicians to believe that once "they" get a national sales tax on top of an income tax, that they'll suddenly have seen the light, and will drop that "revenue and control gift" that would be dropped into their laps.

They've been talking about a VAT type tax to go alongside, not in the place of, our current income tax for quite some time now, and this would be exactly what Mr. Cain would attempt to give them...and the rest would be history, because there is no way the bureaucrats would give that up to transition to something that gives so much control and transparency back into the hands of the people!

 

I was told when I was a child never to give a dog "raw" meat, because then he would develop a "taste for blood" and might start coming after me next, having once tasted that blood and never wanting to give it up.

 

Is that a cold hard fact?  Would a dog do that?  I have no idea and that is not my point, my point is simply that once politicians get a taste of more power and more revenue to look for a way to spend, they'll never give it up willingly, unless the people force them to.

 

We have gained too much ground and co-sponsors toward and for the FairTax to fall for some "limp wristed" attempt at appeasement of both sides of the fence.

 

My message to Herman Cain and all those that share the view of the author of this original post is that you are either FOR the FairTax...or...AGAINST the FairTax.  You cannot have it both ways!  We will not stand for it!

i think the most discouraging part of this is how fair tax leadership has outright folded on us. official fair tax page on facebook is completely spammed with fake fair tax supporters claiming that the fair tax can't pass, that we need a "transition" (to something we have been fighting against for years and big government opponenents of the fair tax have been for, a national sales tax on top of personal and corporate income), bla bla bla. i see no counters to any of this. even neil boortz, who co-authored a book on the fair tax and has spent god knows how many hours in the past rallying AGAINST a vat, and AGAINST a national sales tax on top of personal and corporate income, all of a sudden just rolled over. it may be time for new fair tax leadership if they aren't willing to stand up to this takeover (and many of them are actually endorsing 9-9-9).

sucra

I have emailed several FairTax leaders asking is they support or reject Cain's 9-9-9 plan. Most of the time there is no response. On a minority of occasions the reply is they cannot endorse a candidate as a 501(C)4 organization; completely ignoring my  question only to his 9-9-9 plan but not his as a candidate or they reply Herman Cain will do what he will do and we can't stop him. This answer is very ironic considering AFFT has always encouraged people to be politely persistent with their politicians by expressing their desire to have those candidates support the FairTax or risk not getting elected or reelected yet somehow Cain gets a free pass. It's very odd to say the least.

The other day I called AFFT headquarters in Houston to ask why AFFT has not been more assertive in rejecting Cain's 9-9-9 plan since it is anathema to The FairTax and that TheFairTax has been relegated to a second tier status. He told me many have called demanding AFFT support Cain's 9-9-9 scam.  The person kept repeating AFFT has never supported any other tax plan and suggested I email him. I did so but don't know how much of a difference it will make. I have also submitted responses opposing Cain's scam to posts at the Yahoo FairTax leadership website but those FairTax leaders in charge refuse to post them. Needless to say AFFT's response or lack thereof has been very disappointing and disconcerting.

I'm getting the distinct impression, at the very least, AFFT/FAST hopes the growing schism in The FairTax movement will go away if they don't address it head on or they actually do support Cain's 9-9-9 scam but don't dare publicly admit that is the case.

Dan the whole point could become moot. Read my post on FairTax 2012 of an idea Bill Spillane posted on the cafairtax yahoo page.

cary

Where do I find FairTax 2012?  I received the FairTax Friday notice in my email. The featured video is of Cain. I sent a lengthy reply expressing my deep displeasure of them passing off Cain as FairTax supporter despite his 9-9-9 scam being anathema to The FairTax. I'm more convinced than ever AFFT is in the tank for Cain's scam. It will be the death knell for the FairTax. I cannot express the depth of my disappointment with AFFT changing the movement's direction after all these years.

Dan, FairTax 2012 is on Facebook, that is where my post was put up. If you ncan't find it there look on Yahoo and join the CaFairTax group. This will light up the whole movement. I will try to post here too.
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FairTax Rolls Out "0-0-0-11% Plan"! Oh, Wait...
"Wait.." a minute; we already did that! We just didn't label it well (or even correctly!)
My hat's off to Herman Cain and his advisers because they wisely perceived the "bumper sticker mentality" of the American voter much better than we have and uses his catchy "9-9-9" plan to catch a lot of mentally lazy fish.
Fox News reports("Special Report with Brett Baier") that Herman says that 999 is a step toward the Fair. Hope that's true.
What about the 0-0-0-11 idea? That's easy:
Zero payroll tax
Zero income tax
Zero corporate tax
11% national sales tax on only new goods and services.
Huh? What about the 23% inclusive bit?
Well, after the prebate, a family of four who spends $58,000 on new goods and services will pay only 11% on either a monthly or annual calculation. (search the "prebate" on www.faritax.org/) Other expenditure levels will pay more or less, but that's more details that don't fit on a bumper sticker.
Yes, but that takes a lot more breaths to get that out. True, but all the other bumper sticker plans, including the "flat(income)tax, take a lot of breaths to get out the details of their plan. Doesn't every proposal to the tax code take a lot of breaths to get it out? Yep.
Why should we be handicapped by putting 23% in the faces of our listeners?
Any FairTaxer who answers the question, "What is the rate of the FairTax?", with an answer of "23%" is unnecessarily handicapping us and not telling the whole truth. That's "FairTax malpractice" in my opinion.
To say, "Oh, by the way, the Prebate will be so many dollars, etc." is too late to catch their attention, let alone their buy-in.
Let's catch some fish. Can we ol' dogs learn a new trick? I hope so.
Bill Spillane
CA FairTax
i don't get the spending $58k part, kind of a random number, but why not just add another 0, as in zero sales tax up to the poverty line? the 0 x 4 plan....

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