Grassroots FairTax Have U been SOLD OUT?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jamie Wheeler WA on April 18, 2010 at 4:55am

Goooo Chambliss....FAIRTAX...FAIRTAX...FAIRTAX!!! woooo hooooo!!! Not only did he MENTION the FairTax...he gave a bit of education and definately ENDORSED IT!!! Gooo Saxby, if only Boortz & Hoagland did the same!!!

AWESOME...he even gave the Senate FairTax bill number!!!

Ken Hoagland "I love the FairTax...I love the Flat Tax too." HUH?? Say this is not so! WE NEED TO TAKE A STAND...that is NOT a STAND!!!!

Goooooo Congressman King!! FairTax, FairTax, FairTax...it is the ONLY one that is an option!

IT DOES MATTER WHAT CAMP YOU ARE IN....we cannot be for the FairTax & for Flat Tax...ugh!
What the heck? This is sooooo irritating! We need DOMESTIC WARRIORS on the House and Senate! Rep Jack Kingston...FAIRTAX...there is no other option!

wooo hooo Michelle Bauchman used the FAIRTAX word!! Sure would be nice if she cosponsored it too!!

Thank you congressman Linder for all your hard work...enjoy your retirement and FairTax Warriors we cannot let this "melding" waterdown, weaken our FAIRTAX movement!

The Flat Tax does not fix the system!! The FAIRTAX is superior!!!

The Flat Tax is still going to keep us enslaved!! Dick Armey...isn't he a "lobbyist"?

Who is the number #1 group of people who "do not" want the FairTax? LOBBYISTS...

FAIRTAX...FAIRTAX...FAIRTAX!!!

GREAT JOB Jim!! "FAIRTAX...FAIRTAX...FAIRTAX" Definately a day that gave many FairTax Warriors a teachable moment & marching orders! Do NOT settle for a lesser of 2 evils...the current tax system or the flat tax system when you can have the SUPERIOR system...FAIRTAX!!

Permalink Reply by Ken Hoagland on April 18, 2010 at 6:30pm

The April 15th Tax Revolt rally bloomed into 10,000 passionate people because we took the line (to correct the misquotation here) "I Iove the FairTax but RESPECT....". I do respect their passion for fundamental tax reform and at the end of the day our message will be heard by those we have never been able to reach before before we worked with others. The merits of the FairTax must be first heard to be embraced and this great rally helped us do that.

You will notice that the CPAN subtitle says, "Ken Hoagland, Chairman, FAIRTAX National Campaign...". A 200 person rally of just FairTaxers would not have been covered by CSPAN or any other media outlet in the nation. It would, however, have been a discouraging advertisement to the national media of little strength--no matter the purity of the message. That would hurt our movement, not help it.

Instead, the Tea Party Express joined us and they and every other speaker represented turned out supporters for our rally. This partnership transformed what was a 200 person rally 14 days ago into a 10,000 person rally for Tax Reform--including the FairTax. It also put me and Neal Boortz for the FairTax in front of 30,000 people at the FreedomWorks rally at the Washington Monument later that day as two of the first speakers. Our message was wildly received by all there--people who otherwise would not have heard it.

The big picture is that when people hear about our issue they love it. But they must first hear it and working with other conservative groups, even with different ideas has helped us. We have a common cause with these groups for real reform. I trust the American people will know what to support.

In the last six months we have doubled our membership and that is what we need to make progress on capitol hill and to kill the coming push for a VAT. We can fight alone as purists with no faith that our mesage will be embraced and end up angry and without progress or we can work now with others in the the belief that our combined numbers are good for the nation--and ultimately for our issue.

When it became clear that more needed to be done two weeks ago or we would all be embarrassed we worked around the clock to make something special come together. Every member of the team did 20 hours a day duty including a campaign manager whose wife delivered a new baby seven days ago. He never missed a beat--for us.

Thanks for the appreciation here for that back breaking work, the success of this rally and what it will do to grow our great campaign.

Permalink Reply by norwegianwood on April 18, 2010 at 11:20pm

Sorry Mr. Hoagland..I heard you on the CSPAN recording...you intimated, unequivocally, that the two plans were on equal footing with regards to your support. THAT is the point.

It appears to me from the above that you think you can beat Dick Armey at a game he's been playing for much longer than you have. He has more connections to money, big business, power, and our politicians than you could ever hope to have. He has been playing the game of manipulating the contributors and the constituents longer, and frankly BETTER, than you could ever hope to. You can't beat Dick Armey at HIS GAME...not today, and not tomorrow. He USED you and us to sell to party hardliners, who we ALL KNOW ONLY want the flat tax--which isn't even a bill, but simply a talking point to mullify the masses into settling for whatever they tell us is 'reform'--so they can KEEP their power base in the Congress. Let's don't try to play dumb. (And please DO tell me that you are trying to play dumb, because the only other option is simply too frightening a consideration--that you were actually that easily bamboozled.) Armey is a LOBBYIST...there's no way he will EVER support the Fair Tax..he'd be out of JOB! Got it? What purpose do you think Armey is serving by trying to gather all of the angry, disheartened americans from tea partiers to flat taxers to birthers to 9/11 conspiracy theorists to Fair Taxers? You really think you can hold a CANDLE to his machine and his ability to sell the group EN MASSE as HIS TO GIVE AWAY in order to get the agenda HE wants? Let me break it to you easy...you've already demonstrated that you don't. Allowing yourself to buy into the malarkey that this a 'joint' effort that would be remotely beneficial to the Fair Tax is evidence of that. And while we're on it 'joint'? There was nothing JOINT about it. Armey OWNED you and US. Want MORE PROOF? He can boast fifty thousand at HIS rally. You really think ANYONE in those numbers was effectively drawn over to the Fair Tax?

As you stated, we had roughly two hundred people at both events. Allowing for lost time walking miles between too many scheduled events, how many people do you think we were able to win over in that environment to the Fair Tax? I can't give you a specific number, but I CAN tell you that the message would have reached MANY MORE of those gathered angry tax payers if YOU had managed a platform wherein YOU, the guy with the microphone, USED that LOUD SPEAKER to tell them about it. I'm pretty sure that's a given. But, you didn't manage to negotiate a platform where EACH proponent spoke ABOUT their platform...that's because Dick Armey and the Online Tax Revolt people managed to manipulate you into a watered down message of 'tax reform'...and at the END of the day, the culmination of that energy ended up at Dick Armey's event: HIS WIN...OUR LOSS. And NOTHING you try to say in retrospect alters that reality.

I WILL NOT attend another tea party event. I will NOT attend another Fair Tax JOINT venture with flat taxers, tax revolters, VATers and the like. I will NOT be used again by YOU or by Dick Armey and his Freedom works program which is nothing more than a machine hoping to corral all of the different groups into a collective to use to hand power over to the hardline Republicans. And make NO MISTAKE..that IS HIS GAME. We would have demonstrated with our two hundred actively NOT participating that we are NOT to be manipulated by the RNC or any other political machine...AND, IF you were EFFECTIVE at your job, we WOULD have got AIR TIME for that ACTIVITY--the media LOVE to focus on the 'divisions' or the 'fractures' in the larger crowd of Americans. If you were anywhere NEAR competent to stand up against Dick Armey and his powerbase, you would have recognized that and USED it to our advantage. Cindy Sheehan was ONE WOMAN with a freaking LAWN CHAIR...a low head count is ONLY as small as YOU CHOOSE TO SEE IT. Were I a reporter, my first question would have been, "Aren't all of these people here demanding the same thing?" And that would be followed by a lot of other subsequent questions--"What does this mean about the movement overall? Is it losing cohesion? What ARE the different demands?" The latter one leading to a sought out interview with you or one of us as to WHY we don't want to be associated with Freedom Works or Online Tax Revolt--because we don't just want some lame attempt at 'tax reform' that keeps the power in DC. That's what BOTH parties want. We want to STRIP them of that power. We will NEVER gain that thinking we must first team up with them to win AGAINST them. That's HOW they've managed to hang onto their power as long as they have: They've convinced people like you that you need to listen to THEM on such issues.

Sorry, Mr. Hoagland. I heard what you said; I saw what you did; I was neither impressed nor proud of the representation of the Fair Tax leadership with regards to the ENTIRE Online Tax Revolt decision. I would be MORE impressed IF when you receive feedback from the people on YOUR TEAM, you concede the mistake. Instead, you shirk the responsibility and try to CONDESCEND on the issue. The fact is YOU NEED US, you don't NEED Dick Armey or Online Tax Revolt...well, not if winning passage of the Fair Tax IS your goal.

I want none of this to reflect a negative opinion of the speakers or organizers of the Storming the Hill event or the Conference, or on the AFFT leadership who at least bothered to meet with us to get our feedback. Those elements of my four day trip to DC were insightful and worthwhile expenditures of my time. Good job guys!

Pati Way

Permalink Reply by Sean Fagan on April 18, 2010 at 10:52pm

With all do respect Ken, you have not been misquoted and Jamie's statement is 99.99% accurate. The C-Span video clearly has you on record as saying "I love the FairTax and I love the flat tax".

Before I go on, I feel it necessary to say that my following statements do not reflect those of the FairTax Nation leadership and are mine and mine alone as an individual FairTax supporter.

I did notice the C-Span subtitles and I think they did a lot more to promote the FairTax than you did. As I understand it, you were far more concerned with preserving this "coalition" than you were with promoting the FairTax - and viewing the video makes that rather obvious. Now that we've hugged and kissed all these other groups, they will go back to promoting their own agendas and will soon forget this event.

About that 200 number you mention. In my honest opinion - if you, Butcher & Butcher and the Online Tax Revolt folks had gotten behind this effort from the beginning then I dare say we might have had 10,000 honest to God FairTax supporters at the rally rather than the crowd we ended up with. For the longest time, a "massive rally" was promoted by OTR without ever naming a time and place for it. It appears to me that "massive rally" was never really organized or planned until "14 days ago" when your organization suddenly realized it had zilch, zero, Nada, nothing in terms of a rally and could only resort to strong-arm tactics to take over the rally planned by the grassroots for the previous six months. A shameful display of "CYA" if I ever saw one.

I am of the firm belief that the OTRM was never about the grassroots but more about adding members to the database and soliciting donations. I think whatever funds were used to promote the OTRM would have been better used to encourage people to get off their butts and show up in DC rather than allowing them to think they were making a difference by sitting at home and doing nothing except for selecting an avatar to represent them. If this is the best that you and Butcher & Butcher can come up with then you all are grossly over-paid. I believe the hostile take-over of the grassroots rally only shows a complete and total lack of planning by the OTR group and if it were up to me I'd fire all of you. If the OTR hadn't waited until the last minute to get involved they would have spared themselves those 20 hour days.

Like Jamie, I cannot fathom how the national spokesperson for the FairTax can say "... and I love the flat tax" when you had the perfect opportunity to at least point out that the FairTax is a flat tax on consumption - that would have been worth a couple of points in my book. I just can't wait to see what you and Boortz had to say at that other rally.

As for the American people, I think your trust is misplaced. Based on my experience these past few days, many of them have no idea what the FairTax is and I believe many of them think it is a VAT or sales tax on top of the income tax.

We have a long way to go in terms of promoting the FairTax and educating the people (just how is the FairTax Victory campaign going anyway). Your mentioning both the FairTax and the flat tax in the same sentence only creates confusion.

Again, you were not misquoted and if you think you were then I suggest you watch the video for yourself. When you are able to admit that you actually made this statement, maybe you'll reconsider your position on the FairTax versus the flat tax. I personally think you ought to consider resigning as national spokesperson.

Permalink Reply by norwegianwood on April 18, 2010 at 11:46pm

Much more eloquent than I Sean. EXCELLENT points!

P

Permalink Reply by Ken Hoagland on April 19, 2010 at 8:27am

There was nothing to promote in the rally "planned for months". The permit for the "South Lawn of the Capitol" turns out did not exist--there is no south lawn of the capitol--the south side is actually the parking lot (for which there was no permit). And the permit that did exist for elsewhere on the capitol lawn was not for the morning but for the late afternoon it turns out. There was no stage, no working sound system that could handle music, no generators for power, no plan for equipment delivery and no certain line up of speakers. What could we promote? In the absence of a working plan there was no way to build a crowd. Just admit a mistake?--not hearing anything here about these facts.

When these facts became clear, we worked without rest to save us all from an embarrassment in a desperately short time--too short really to do anything but think outside the box. The partnership with other groups that produced a 10,000 person rally when it looked like the whole thing would collapse with either no working rally at all or one that would give us a black eye took a lot of emergency work, a lot of money (from the online tax revolt) and a willingness to walk a fine line, asking each speaker to focus on what we have in common instead of what divides us. They were willing and extended invitations to us that will continue to the benefit of every group working to ditch the current system.

The fact that we have doubled our membership in six months, seen op-eds in most major outlets, brought a million people to our website curious about the FairTax, have been heard on 70 shows in five weeks, have George Will writing about repeal of the 16th amendment and a consumption tax in place of the income tax and that we will now move across the country building even more support are all real and positive consequences of this work that get no respect at all here. For our hard work at the eleventh hour, for the rally that has made Washington shake and start looking seriously at fundamental tax reform of every stripe, there have been no thanks at all here, only bitter criticism. OK then, lesson learned.

Permalink Reply by Jim Tomasik on April 19, 2010 at 10:05am

Ken,

So, I see we are airing out the dirty laundry this morning. It is obvious that you like to talk but have a real problem listening.

First:

In your last "Dear John, Never Again" love letter email to me, you said I never thanked you. Maybe you should listen to what I said to the crowd. This does not surprise us because it is clear by your comments you did not even listen to yourself. I gave you way more credit than you deserved and told it to the whole crowd.

Second :

There is a south lawn to the Capitol. It was where we held the evening protest on March 21st. There is NO parking lot between the Capitol and Independence Avenue. There is no parking lot between Independence Avenue and the Congressional Office Bldgs either unless you are talking about the taxi stand lane.

To use the "South Lawn", one must pull the permit for the "West Lawn" because that is from where the electrical service would have to come. That is what I did. We were using the South end of the West Lawn but that got a little long to say every time we mentioned it so I shortened it to "South Lawn". I see I may not have pulled the permit 100% correctly leaving an opeing for another group. My bad! I'll take that blame for that but I will also take the credit for listening to those who warned me about headaches getting a permit for the Capital with all the hoops that have to be jumped. Understanding that could be a problem, I pulled a "fall back" permit at Freedom Plaza just in case. Where were you planning to hold your OTR event?

Nowhere.

I have paper work to prove all of this.

Third:

No one has an issue with the idea of the "big tent". It is not as if you invented it or something. That idea is exactly was what I told you on the last conf. call before 9/12 and you were totally against it. Remember? We certainly do. You did not want us to be part of 9/12 in DC at all. You even got on Mark Levin's show and cried about how the Washington insiders would not let you play with them. We here at FairTax Nation worked our butts off in spite of you bashing the whole idea. What ever FairTax got out of a million pissed off Americans being in one place happened because I, along with other FairTax Nation people made it happen.


We had a far more successful DC FairTax presence in September than we had last week.

Forth

I take it you are claiming 10,000 people showed up at a location that only holds 5,000 people. OK, fine. I take it you are claiming 9,800 of those people were there because of your efforts alone.

You are thereby saying that leaves 200 people that came due to grassroots efforts. You are not only very wrong, you arrogantly insult the hard work of a lot of people who support the FairTax with all they have.

We here at FairTax Nation supported the OTR effort from Day One and understood the big tent idea! I even sent a request that FTN be one of the leadership groups in the effort. That request was not even given a response at all.

It is obvious that working with you is a one way street.

Get lost.

...........................................................

Ken Hoagland's comments here for perm. record:

The April 15th Tax Revolt rally bloomed into 10,000 passionate people because we took the line (to correct the misquotation here) "I Iove the FairTax but RESPECT....". I do respect their passion for fundamental tax reform and at the end of the day our message will be heard by those we have never been able to reach before before we worked with others. The merits of the FairTax must be first heard to be embraced and this great rally helped us do that.

You will notice that the CPAN subtitle says, "Ken Hoagland, Chairman, FAIRTAX National Campaign...". A 200 person rally of just FairTaxers would not have been covered by CSPAN or any other media outlet in the nation. It would, however, have been a discouraging advertisement to the national media of little strength--no matter the purity of the message. That would hurt our movement, not help it.

Instead, the Tea Party Express joined us and they and every other speaker represented turned out supporters for our rally. This partnership transformed what was a 200 person rally 14 days ago into a 10,000 person rally for Tax Reform--including the FairTax. It also put me and Neal Boortz for the FairTax in front of 30,000 people at the FreedomWorks rally at the Washington Monument later that day as two of the first speakers. Our message was wildly received by all there--people who otherwise would not have heard it.

The big picture is that when people hear about our issue they love it. But they must first hear it and working with other conservative groups, even with different ideas has helped us. We have a common cause with these groups for real reform. I trust the American people will know what to support.

In the last six months we have doubled our membership and that is what we need to make progress on capitol hill and to kill the coming push for a VAT. We can fight alone as purists with no faith that our mesage will be embraced and end up angry and without progress or we can work now with others in the the belief that our combined numbers are good for the nation--and ultimately for our issue.

When it became clear that more needed to be done two weeks ago or we would all be embarrassed we worked around the clock to make something special come together. Every member of the team did 20 hours a day duty including a campaign manager whose wife delivered a new baby seven days ago. He never missed a beat--for us.

Thanks for the appreciation here for that back breaking work, the success of this rally and what it will do to grow our great campaign.

more:

There was nothing to promote in the rally "planned for months". The permit for the "South Lawn of the Capitol" turns out did not exist--there is no south lawn of the capitol--the south side is actually the parking lot (for which there was no permit). And the permit that did exist for elsewhere on the capitol lawn was not for the morning but for the late afternoon it turns out. There was no stage, no working sound system that could handle music, no generators for power, no plan for equipment delivery and no certain line up of speakers. What could we promote? In the absence of a working plan there was no way to build a crowd. Just admit a mistake?--not hearing anything here about these facts.

When these facts became clear, we worked without rest to save us all from an embarrassment in a desperately short time--too short really to do anything but think outside the box. The partnership with other groups that produced a 10,000 person rally when it looked like the whole thing would collapse with either no working rally at all or one that would give us a black eye took a lot of emergency work, a lot of money (from the online tax revolt) and a willingness to walk a fine line, asking each speaker to focus on what we have in common instead of what divides us. They were willing and extended invitations to us that will continue to the benefit of every group working to ditch the current system.

The fact that we have doubled our membership in six months, seen op-eds in most major outlets, brought a million people to our website curious about the FairTax, have been heard on 70 shows in five weeks, have George Will writing about repeal of the 16th amendment and a consumption tax in place of the income tax and that we will now move across the country building even more support are all real and positive consequences of this work that get no respect at all here. For our hard work at the eleventh hour, for the rally that has made Washington shake and start looking seriously at fundamental tax reform of every stripe, there have been no thanks at all here, only bitter criticism. OK then, lesson learned.

Permalink Reply by norwegianwood on April 19, 2010 at 2:01pm

Mr. Hoagland,
How is a person not involved in the ongoing battle between .org and FTN grassroots to interpret your comment about the doubled membership in the past six months? Are you suggesting that that was a result solely of OTR and YOUR efforts? It certainly can't be attributed to the event that just transpired.

You don't appear to be the emphatic, pro-the-movement person I met in an elevator in SC in May of 2007 when I attended my first Fair Tax rally. My friend and I were there of our own volition because we had read The Fair Tax book and found out there was going to a rally and decided to attend. Point being, whether anyone was working to promote the growth of the movement prior to that, we were totally unaware, we 'came to the information' from our own actions. YES the rally itself took a lot of work, and you were FANTASTIC at that event. You were inspiring us to get out there and work FOR the passage of this legislation. I was so impressed with the movement that my husband and I drove the nine hours to Iowa that August to attend the straw poll event and to work for the Fair Tax organization. Again, that was a well-organized event. It was inspiring. It was ONLY about the Fair Tax.

Subsequently, I have come to know about you writing your own book on the Fair Tax...That's great. However, unlike Boortz/Linder, you refused to provide FREE copies to the Fair Tax supporters who spent their own time and money to work at CPAC to inform that captive audience about the Fair Tax. Fine. Perhaps you are not financially able to do so, or the money for the book sales was already allotted and necessary for funding other events. Still, it smacked of self-promotion, whether that is the case or not. I am trying to give you feedback from an 'outsider' position here. It "looked" as if you wrote the book to associate the Fair Tax with your name. It also "appeared" that you were no longer willing to 'go the extra mile' to support the success of the legislation by putting your OWN money on the line. Meanwhile, ALL of us are spending our OWN money to try to promote the Fair Tax. We ALL have other jobs, our own bills and issues we must overcome in order to try to get the word out and to educate people on the BEST tax plan for the country. When we see a 'leadership' guy, who can't even donate some FREE copies of his book to aid in that, it smacks a bit of double standard: it's okay for US to spend OUR money to invest in this process, but a guy who is paid BY the organization can't forego some profits for a book on the subject? My high opinion of your loyalty to the cause dropped a notch or two because it raised doubts over your where your loyalty lies: passage of the Fair Tax, or self promotion. But I was still hopeful that it was simply miscommunication or an issue of funding for other events.

Then, I spent more than a thousand dollars, all combined, to attend a Fair Tax Storm the Hill event...only to hear OUR spokesperson intimate that the Fair Tax and the Flat Tax are on equal footing with regards to HIS support! I don't think you are grasping how DEVASTATING that is. Try again PLEASE to explain how joining up with a larger crowd promoting a 'general' message about the need for tax reform is remotely beneficial to the Fair Tax specifically. Because I don't see it. I mean, if the ONLY message is 'tax reform', I can see the spin of the DNC right now suggesting the VAT bill they want to thrust upon us IS the reform we were demanding.

As an attendee of the event, I concur that there was no need for the elaborate sound system, stage or line up of people who basically said nothing. We were not able to hear the people from the stage while standing on the triangle platform at the midway point back from the stage anyway. We weren't aware of what anyone had to say until we went to youtube and accessed the CSPAN video. So, explain how that was a good use of money and effort.

Nobody is denying that it required effort or hours of work, but I would imagine the football player who catches the ball and then runs in the wrong direction up the field expends the same energy as the guy who runs toward the proper end-zone. Translation...I don't know that one should receive accollades if their effort works against the goals.

I didn't spend MY money to attend a rally where MY representative DIDN'T ADVOCATE the Fair Tax legislation. And, a thousand dollars does NOT COME easily to my household. I am looking at two kids in college come September and we live on ONE income. There are things we will do without BECAUSE we support the passage of the Fair Tax. But, when it feels as if you managed to undermine ALL my efforts by placing the flat tax on the same level as the Fair Tax, I get angry. I do apologize for my initial harsh response. But you do not appear to me to be the man I met three years ago in SC who was energetic, emphatic and who appreciated the hard work FROM us grassroot supporters.

It was not easy for me this round to discover all the infighting and squabbling between the .org and the grassroots with regards to how best to promote the Fair Tax. I recognize that a house divided risks the fall. But, on this issue, I simply don't think you have demonstrated HOW the expenditure and decision to join with OTR was a net positive gain for the Fair Tax. I think it a huge leap to consider that ALL the growth in membership over the past six months was due to YOUR efforts and OTR, rather than considering the percentage of that growth that came from where MOST of it comes..from the grassroots efforts in every state, everyday: networking, educating, advocating in our communities.

Again. Take the feedback as you will. Nobody is saying there was not energy expended. It's how that energy and money was expended in relation to getting the PRO FAIR TAX legislation message out front and center that is at issue. I didn't see that result. And that was beyond disappointing.

P

Permalink Reply by norwegianwood on April 20, 2010 at 9:03pm

Is it typical to not have one's questions answered? Wow.

Permalink Reply by Sean Fagan on April 19, 2010 at 11:12am

Ok, let's talk about the facts...

The permit we thought we had was actually for the entire West lawn and the reference to the "South lawn" was for the south side of the west lawn and not that parking lot you mention. We had always intended to begin the rally at that location at 9am and as far as I am aware, that is what was requested for the permit. I will admit we could have done a better job of describing the location by saying "the south side of the West lawn". As I understand it, the problem with the permit arose when it was discovered that an identical permit was issued to another group and not due to a lack on the part of the grassroots to acquire one. Perhaps Jim Tomasik can help clarify the issue about the time. In addition, the grassroots was wise enough to acquire a "fallback" permit at the Freedom Plaza just in case a problem arose with the one for the West lawn - as it so happened. I am curious about what permits the OTR team pulled for the "massive rally" they promoted, when they were pulled and the time for those permits.

Both a stage and a sound system was obtained for the rally we had planned at the Capitol building. While the stage may not have been as elaborate as the one at Freedom Plaza it would have sufficed for what was originally planned. The same goes for the sound system, not as elaborate as the one at Freedom Plaza, but since we never planned to have music or put on a "show" it would have been sufficient for speakers. Plans for the delivery of the stage and sound system were made and ready to go. I believe the plan was to hook up power to an available outlet in the vicinity of the original site so a generator would not have been necessary. In short, there was no "absence" of a working plan. Perhaps that working plan needed to be improved, but it did exist.

Here's a fact that you fail to mention - the grassroots started planning this event back in October and everyone in "Houston" knew about it. The grassroots reached out to "Houston" at that time and asked for support. That support was very slow in coming and it wasn't until the last few weeks before we saw any mention of the planned events in communications coming out of "Houston" in spite of assurances early on that it would help with promoting Operation FairTax - we even added "Victory" to the name at "Houston's" request. What support we finally did see was too little, too late.

The fact is that the OTR team had plenty of opportunity to join the effort back in October and if it had done so many of the issues you describe would have been worked out well ahead of time. Instead, it waited until the final two weeks to get involved and I firmly believe this was not done to save the grassroots from embarrassment but rather to save OTR from its own embarrassment when whatever plans for that "massive rally" they promoted collapsed. I admit that I could be wrong about this but I never did hear or see a time or place announced for that event. Perhaps you can provide us with some details about those plans?

I harbor a certain amount of resentment with your coming here and putting your "spin" on all of this and portraying the OTR team as knights on white horses riding to our "rescue" when, in my opinion, the image I have in mind is more like Darth Vader.

Please note that my reference to "Houston" throughout this post refers to both the OTR team and AFFT collectively. I have no way of knowing for sure who was behind all of these actions but I have the feeling AFFT had little to do with the final results.

I fully appreciate and respect the positive consequences of the work by the OTR team but I don't believe this discussion is about those results but the rally at Freedom Plaza instead. Feel free to start a separate discussion to present those facts.

The criticism you are receiving is rightly deserved. When the grassroots, who work so hard to promote the FairTax at state and local levels, witness the national spokesperson putting the flat tax on equal footing with the FairTax I'm sure they feel a sense of betrayal and have every right to voice their displeasure. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Again, the OTR team had plenty of opportunity to get involved from the very beginning instead of waiting until the last two weeks. The short time period you keep talking about was their doing, not ours. I think it is rather incredulous for you to keep bemoaning that the OTR team had to work so hard when it could have been avoided altogether.

Permalink Reply by Jim Tomasik on April 21, 2010 at 8:04am

Let's move on. We've learned.

I'm closing this discussion.