Replace All Federal Taxes on Income with the Fair Tax Act , HR 25
Our Best Opportunity for Promoting The FairTax is wasting away!
I am frustrated to the MAX! I've been promoting The FairTax ever since H.R. 25 was first introduced and immediately sent to committee to die. I've been writing articles explaining/promoting/defending or correcting mis-information about The FairTax on my own blog,* in letters to the newspapers, and in several Internet forums I post in for many months now. Since the advent of The Tea Party movement, I've posted in many of the individual Websites that have sprung up, associated with the conservative, Constitution-supporting groups who consider themselves part of the Tea Party Movement.
My frustration arises from the lack of interest I find among 'tea partyers' for The FairTax. As for me, I'm fully sold on the absolutely positive benefits to our economy, the political structure, personal standard of living, employment, business growth...you name it, enactment of The FairTax would be the single most marvelous, POSITIVE change that could be made to America. I know this, and have been trying to convince everyone I talk to how very desperately we NEED The FairTax. It kills me to hear national newscasters and commentators talking about changes in the tax code being considered, and they act as though they never heard of The FairTax! What's worse, is the relative silence about The FairTax coming from most of the Tea Party groups.
By this time--thanks to Mike Huckabee, Neil Boortz, John Linder and a handful of other significant personages, I think most Americans should have at least HEARD of The FairTax. What I don't understand is, WHY ISN'T THE ENTIRE COUNTRY ON FIRE FOR IT???! THEY CERTAINLY SHOULD BE! The Tea Party groups ought to be giving The FairTax their first priority after the selection and election of good candidates, but few of them are. WHY AREN'T THEY?!!! By now, there should be a groundswell so big demanding Congress at least seriously consider the merits of The FairTax that ALL the media could no longer ignore it. Demonstrations should be drawing thousands with signs and banners DEMANDING that Congress enact H.R. 25, The FairTax!!
It ought to be the MAIN topic of discussion in every home in America, and on all the "letters to the editor" columns across the land! The noise should be so LOUD that members of Congress would be compelled to hold substantive and serious debate about it. Mr Boortz and Mr. Linder and other articulate, knowledgeable spokespersons who are the most familiar with The FairTax should be on all the TV Network and Cable Network talk shows, answering questions and de-bunking the false information opponents are propagating. Why isn't any of this happening????!! It's driving me crazy! Wake up Tea Party!!! Time is a wastin, make some NOISE! The economy's in big trouble...people are out of work...and politicians are using the present tax code against America! There is no more important issue that you can get behind right now, so WHY AREN'T YOU??!!
At this point, I feel like throwing in a long line of curse words for emphasis, only, I don't curse...as a rule. As my wife would say, "Yeah! Right!"
Arthur Bruce Robertson
Lake Saint Louis, MO
* http://www.mywatch.blog.townhall.com
My frustration arises from the lack of interest I find among 'tea partyers' for The FairTax. As for me, I'm fully sold on the absolutely positive benefits to our economy, the political structure, personal standard of living, employment, business growth...you name it, enactment of The FairTax would be the single most marvelous, POSITIVE change that could be made to America. I know this, and have been trying to convince everyone I talk to how very desperately we NEED The FairTax. It kills me to hear national newscasters and commentators talking about changes in the tax code being considered, and they act as though they never heard of The FairTax! What's worse, is the relative silence about The FairTax coming from most of the Tea Party groups.
By this time--thanks to Mike Huckabee, Neil Boortz, John Linder and a handful of other significant personages, I think most Americans should have at least HEARD of The FairTax. What I don't understand is, WHY ISN'T THE ENTIRE COUNTRY ON FIRE FOR IT???! THEY CERTAINLY SHOULD BE! The Tea Party groups ought to be giving The FairTax their first priority after the selection and election of good candidates, but few of them are. WHY AREN'T THEY?!!! By now, there should be a groundswell so big demanding Congress at least seriously consider the merits of The FairTax that ALL the media could no longer ignore it. Demonstrations should be drawing thousands with signs and banners DEMANDING that Congress enact H.R. 25, The FairTax!!
It ought to be the MAIN topic of discussion in every home in America, and on all the "letters to the editor" columns across the land! The noise should be so LOUD that members of Congress would be compelled to hold substantive and serious debate about it. Mr Boortz and Mr. Linder and other articulate, knowledgeable spokespersons who are the most familiar with The FairTax should be on all the TV Network and Cable Network talk shows, answering questions and de-bunking the false information opponents are propagating. Why isn't any of this happening????!! It's driving me crazy! Wake up Tea Party!!! Time is a wastin, make some NOISE! The economy's in big trouble...people are out of work...and politicians are using the present tax code against America! There is no more important issue that you can get behind right now, so WHY AREN'T YOU??!!
At this point, I feel like throwing in a long line of curse words for emphasis, only, I don't curse...as a rule. As my wife would say, "Yeah! Right!"
Arthur Bruce Robertson
Lake Saint Louis, MO
* http://www.mywatch.blog.townhall.com
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Arthur Bruce Robertson on
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Thanks, Hank. I have shot KH an introductory/Let's talk E-mail. We'll see. You really seem well-informed about the history of TFT, and wary of some of it's co-sponsors level of true support of it. As I said in my last, I also am skeptical of this myself. Its hard to imagine 60 Representatives could be making such a minimal impact if they were really on board. (SOBs) somehow, we're going to have to find a real CHAMPION, who is in a position to really sell TFT to the Nation. Someone like Sarah Palin, or Glen Beck, or even Sean Hannity. As has been pointed out here, there are millions of Americans who still have heard little to nothing about TFT.
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Fowler on
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Arthur,
I share your frustration as it seems intuitively obvious that we need move away from the current tax which is based on the 2nd plank of the Communist Manifesto and to the FairTax. In the primary for Missouri's 5th Congressional District, I am the only candidate that is a true supporter of the FairTax. Unfortunately I don't have the name recognition of the candidate who is making his 3rd attempt at winning this seat.
If anyone has acquaintances, friends, family or business associates in Missouri's 5th District please direct them to my campaign website at Jerry Fowler for U.S. House of Representatives, Missourii's 5th Dis... and ask them to vote for Jerry Fowler on August 3rd.
Thank you.
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J O,
We have had a lot of success in Missouri but we weren't able to get the State bill through in this year's General Assembly due to a threat of filibuster from the Democratic State Senate Minority Leader even though the House passed it.
At the federal level, there is a lot of resistance to it because the current system is manipulated to benefit deep-pocketed special interests who in turn fund the re-election of incumbents who in turn manipulate the tax code.
I am not trying to discourage attempts to present the FairTax as non-partisan, but you have to have elected officials that will put aside personal interests for the benefit of the people. The "progressives" have no incentive to make that choice and actually prefer the system as it is.
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J O, Here's the best answer I can give you (Quotations from Bob Martin's recent blog on this site):
The true essence of the culture of Washington D.C. and more specifically the United States Congress, was summed up recently in a sobering statement by a FairTax supporter. This is basically what he had to say and I suspect what most of us already believe to be the case;
”Opposition to the FairTax is bi-partisan in Washington . It's human, not ideological. The ability to grant favors to paid lobbyists representing individuals and corporations, other Members of Congress seeking breaks for favored constituents and contributors themselves, has led to a level of corruption that would make the Mob blush. It's a heady business holding so much power over the system that handles so much of our money. Congress’ power over the tax code is significantly diminished by the FairTax. Are they really going to voluntarily give up that kind of power?”
The business of seeking favors and your tax dollars, is big business in Washington. More than a billion dollars a year is spent lobbying for breaks in the tax code. Tax lobbyists are the most successful and powerful lobbyists in Washington and their numbers have doubled in the last 8 years.
So this is why the "merits" of the FairTax fall on deaf ears in Washington-power, money and influence. We have to force change by recruiting grass roots numbers large enough to threaten the more important self-interest of elected officials--their re-elections. It is high time we ripped away the false facade of "public service", supposed scholarly independence and tax reform hypocrisy that disguises those protecting the income tax system while attacking the FairTax. It is time to stand up and let them know that we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore! Join us in telling your elected officials it is time to represent our voice and not the lobbyists in Washington. Tell them it is time for tax reform. Tell them it is time for the FairTax (Right ON, Bob)
As my way of promoting TFT, I sent Bob's entire piece as a "Letter to the Editor". BR
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Permalink Reply by Scott Bankston on
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Well said Arthur, I'm right there with you. It is really amazing how brainwashed people are. It just blows me away. I thought the same thing as you do now back in 2002. It really seems like the Fairtax is moving slow but it takes time. I wrote a blog back in Feb. 09 that might make you feel a little better. Its about how far the Fairtax has come since I first heard of it in 2002. If you get a chance read it.
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Scott,
You may be surprised at how far the FairTax has come in the last few years. I helped man the FairTax booth last Sunday September 5th at the SantaCaliGon Days festival in Independence MO. I would ask people if they would like to learn about the FairTax and quite a few of them said they already knew about it and just wanted to sign the petition.
I talked with other members of the FairTaxKC group who were in the booth and they were both pleasantly surprised by the number of petition signers and people who said they already knew about the FairTax. They told me it wasn't like this 2-3 years ago.
We are making progress.
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Who's Scott? If you are replying to my "Opportunity" post, Jerry, I appreciate the encouragement. It is good to know we are making progress in educating more people. I am finding the subsequent posts on this thread very valuable, as well. I will probably enter that "update TFF" discussion myself.
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Permalink Reply by Terry Warns on
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The Fairtax has been around for 15 years without a significant change in its approach and its message. Most democrats oppose it. It is time to ask why and how we can address their concerns. The Tea Party is very partisian and uses inflamatory language. They do not know how to compromise.
I will give one example. The Fairtax proposal wants the existing state systems to collect the fairtax for the federal government. Instead maybe the message should be, the Fairtax collection system will use 21st century technology to collect the tax, so that it is easy to comply, easy to audit, and easy for the states to piggyback on for their own fairtax and hard to cheat with significant penalites for cheating. In addition, the states would be able to collect their share of fairtax on internet sales.
That change addresses a criticism and also will get the states interested because they are losing big revenue to internet sales that do not collect the sales tax for them.
I think it is time to look at the criticisms about the fairtax and instead of arguing they are wrong, but try to upgrade the product.
Think about it this way. The auto companies did not change their quality for decades and allowed a small competitor in the market place that after decades is as large a US employer as any other US auto company.
The Fairtax has not changed its message in 15 years. You have to change your message for new people to come on board.
Using 21st century technology to collect the taxes is a great talking point that addresses a criticism, is hard to argue with, helps attract new propopents (state governments) and does not compromise the fairtax message.
If we do not improve our product in 15 years, then our product will die.
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I will give the short version as the Faritax org has had my paper on this for about 5 years. My background is the design of computer based systems and have been doing so for 30 years.
I also do income taxes professionally and I have an MBA.
Collection of income tax is a relatively easy problem to solve and the FAIRTAX is no exception.
Every business will have 2 deposit accounts, one for FAIRTAX revenues and one for non FAIRTAX revenues. When a business deposits their funds into the FAIRTAX account, then the Taxes are automatically removed and forwarded to the government. The remaining funds are forwarded to their non FAIRTAX account. Banks already do the forwarding of deposits for businesses today. It is a small change for them to do this.
Given this, what would you audit? You would only audit those funds directly deposited into non Fairtax accounts.
Of course there would be a need for a web site in order to make any adjustments. That also would need to be audited.
Now for non internet sales, the deposit account would know the state they are in and could duplicate the collection for the state. It would be easy to piggyback.
For Internet sales, the FAIRTAX regs could say they must collect any State FAIRTAX based on recipients zip code. They would need to notify the bank of the sales by zip code so that the money could be moved appropriately.
In short, I have met my design goals using existing technology. One national system, easy to audit, easy to implement, where states can piggyback on (thus reducing their costs) and be able to collect Internet sales (thus increasing state revenues).
Do you think if we started talking about this at the federal and the state level, we would gain support?
Do you think we will lose support?
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Thanks,
They passed my paper onto MI FAIRTAX and made no comment that I remember. From my talks with MI FAIRTAX, some congressman made the same sentiments as you.
Why two accounts?
It is for operational purposes. Only the retail account is the money pulled. However all businesses even retail have non retail deposits to make. That is why they need two accounts. How the banks implement that is up to them. Also it is for audit purposes. We only need to audit the non FT account, because by definition all FT has been paid on the FT account. This makes auditing simplier.
In addition, only businesses can setup commercial accounts, this arrangement is a B2B transaction. If you try to circumvent, then it would be difficult to operate a real business outside of this arrangement. Thus auditing is more reliable. When auditing is more reliable, cheating is less likely.
You are correct, there are some businesses that do no retail activity. That is ok, they just do not deposit into that account. No hurt, no foul.
I would not give the banks 1/4% for collection. They want commercial deposit business and businesses are already paying fees for their services. It is a B2B transaction fee.
And just think if we eliminate 2 1/4% fees, we can have a 29.5% Fairtax rate instead.
The problem I see with FAIRTAX.org is they are not willing to change their message, even the slightest.
But here is a proposal that addresses a number of criticisms. Is fairly easy to explain. Is high tech. And does not change the basic premise of the FAIRTAX.
However the FAIRTAX is not willing to change their proposal and so we have a dormant Fairtax plan.
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Examples of non tax deposits are the following:
Stockholder equity
Loan proceeds
refunds from suppliers
These are B2B transactions and should not be deposited into the FT account, but should be deposited into a non FT account. During audit they can easily be accounted for
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Terry Warns said: "The Fairtax has been around for 15 years without a significant change in its approach and its message. Most democrats oppose it. It is time to ask why and how we can address their concerns.
Terry, on another thread I've addressed this statement by quoting another poster on this forum from several months back. Fair Tax Nation contributor, Bob Martin said in part:
We are often asked in our fight to gain support for the FairTax Act of 2009, “If it is such a great way to reform our current, arcane tax system, why hasn’t Congress enacted it?” The true essence of the culture of Washington D.C. and more specifically the United States Congress, was summed up recently in a sobering statement by a FairTax supporter. This is basically what he had to say and I suspect what most of us already believe to be the case;
”Opposition to the FairTax is bi-partisan in Washington . It's human, not ideological. The ability to grant favors to paid lobbyists representing individuals and corporations, other Members of Congress seeking breaks for favored constituents and contributors themselves, has led to a level of corruption that would make the Mob blush. It's a heady business holding so much power over the system that handles so much of our money. Congress’ power over the tax code is significantly diminished by the FairTax. Are they really going to voluntarily give up that kind of power?”
The business of seeking favors and your tax dollars, is big business in Washington. More than a billion dollars a year is spent lobbying for breaks in the tax code. Tax lobbyists are the most successful and powerful lobbyists in Washington and their numbers have doubled in the last 8 years. Why do you think their ranks are constantly replenished by ex-Members of Congress, their family members and staffers from their tax writing committees. Retired or defeated members of Congress and staffers with 8-10 years experience can command a six or even seven figure deal when they join a " K Street " tax lobbying firm. I do not see anyone in Congress asking to limit their executive compensation. Politicians and DC pundits dine with them while Washington society celebrates their power and wealth. (End of Martin quote)
So, there's the reason it hasn't found favor in Congress, from either party!
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