Fair Tax Nation

Replace All Federal Taxes on Income with the Fair Tax Act , HR 25

Let me say again, I feel many people are NOT FOCUSING on what
is truly necessary to get the FairTax Bill passed in this Congress.

From 2000-2006 Congress and the White House were ruled by Republicans.
Even though Rep Linder was on the House Ways & Means Committee, at no
time did the Republican leadership bring the FairTax up even for a W&M
debate, let alone a vote.

Yet, people on this forum are fixated on what I feel are useless discussions
about whether certain right-wing, neo-conservatives do, or do not, promote
the FairTax enough. These people did nothing to get the FairTax passed when
the Republicans ruled everything, why do you think they matter when they now
have no effective power at all?

This ideological fixation on Republican/conservative groups and people is
one major reason the people in power now, i.e. Democrats, see the FairTax as
some right-wing driven neo-conservative scheme, and they don't begin to assess
the FairTax on its merits because of its perceived base of support. And to tell
the truth, if one just objectively listens and reviews the discussion on this forum
they would have every right and reason to think that way.

Until people on this forum, and other FairTax supporters, get it in their heads
that they must talk to the Democrats, and their supporters, and in a nice way, the
FairTax will not go anywhere, and certainly not anywhere fast, no matter how
good it is based on its merits.

Until people on this forum start to talk about reaching out to progressive and liberal
political and social groups, and building mindshare with them, so they WILL LOBBY
on the FairTax's behalf, this group's efforts will continue to be offpoint and futile.

Again, the political reality is the DEMOCRATS are in charge, and nothing will be
advanced unless a majority of them want it. And ignoring or alienating them, and their
constituent groups, is not the way to advance the FairTax. And being seen to coddle up
to people like Rush Limbaugh, et al, will be sure to tar the FairTax as guilty by association.

It is really sad and continuously frustrating that people on this forum continue to tie and
associate the FairTax in a very partisan way to Republican/conservative causes and people,
to the detriment of the FairTax. Because, as a avid supporter of the FairTax, but who is
a VERY PROGRESSIVE political Independent, I get so tired of hearing about all the forays
toward these groups and people that not only don't matter, but who are balls-and-chains
around the FairTax, in the eyes of people like me.

It is to the ultimate advantage of the FairTax that it not be associated with Huckabee,
Hannity, Bortz, and even Linder, who are seen as rabid right-wing Republican partisans
by most Democrats, who do the FairTax no good by continually attacking President Obama too.

Until this effort is actually seen to be non-partisan, by the people in power, we will continue
to get the cold shoulder from people who would probably support it if they could get past
its perceived Republican/conservative ideological affiliation.

So throw all the Tea Parties you want. But if supporters like me don't show up, or Democratic
members or their staff, maybe that should tell you you are doing more damage than good to the FairTax, even though it may make you feel better (and comfortable) to be at these events.

I REALLY WANT TO SEE THE FAIRTAX PASSED THIS YEAR, AND ONLY THE
DEMOCRATS HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT, SO IF WE DON'T TALK AND
FOCUS ON THEM, WHAT IS THE POINT TO ALL THIS ACTIVITY ON THIS FORUM.

Jabari Zakiya

Views: 114

Replies are closed for this discussion.

Replies to This Discussion

Jabari,

Guilt by association works both ways.

I really don't want to get into the blame game here but I think you are also not looking at the whole picture either.

You seem to forget that the FairTax bill was intended to be biparitsan from the very beginning. A congressman was supposed to get a member from the other side to cosponsor with him so that it would stay that way.

Then comes the party players who threatened the democrat cosponsors for their support saying if they support the bill they would lose their committee positions. So dems bailed and turned it into a political football.

It was the Democrats who insisted that this be a right/left issue from the very beginning. It was also the DCCC that ran lieing ads against congressmen who supported FairTax.

Now even Boren is not cosponsoring FairTax? What's up with that?

Whats the chance on getting MSNBC to start talking good about FairTax?

You give me a Congressman who is a member of the Democratic Party who supports FairTax and I'll have his face on the front page of FairTax Nation right there with Rep. King. Rep. King would be glad to have it that way.

This issue is a 'right vs wrong' thing but the Democratic party has worked very hard to make it a 'Right Vs Left' thing.

Lets see some democrats in power start talking good about FairTax and I'll see to it that they are shown plenty of love on this site.
The FairTax is a Republican sponsored Bill, which was first introduced in Congress in 1999 under the most partisan circumstances within (at least) the past 50 years, by a rabid Congressional and White House Republican leadership, that COMPLETELY shutout the Democrats from having virtually any effective say on any legislation of any consequence, and you now see where that has driven this country to.

The Democrats, as people, have every right to feel some sense of payback for all the sh*t, lies, corruption, and malfesance that the Republicans (Congressman and White House) subjected them to, to the detriment of the country. So don't act so surprised if Nancy Pelosi threatens to deny Democrats chairmanships, et al, to people who support, WHAT IS SEEN TO BE Republican legislation.

And that is the point -- the FairTax is seen by MOST Democratics as a Republican Bill, and the efforts of people here to continually, AND EXCLUSIVELY, tie the FairTax to everything and everybody the Democrats despise (in most cases rightfully) HURTS THE FAIRTAX!

Unless you have talked to a Democratic Legislative Aide (LA) and actual LISTEN to what they say they think the FairTax is, invariably the first things they spout has to do with it being a Republican Bill with no visible Democrat support. And they would be (on the surface) correct.

SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO COMBAT THAT?

1) Stop promoting Republican/conservative issues and people.
This association with ALL THINGS Republican/conservative IS KILLING THE FAIRTAX!!!

2) Talk to Democrats and NEVER mention Republican support.
Only educate them on the merits of the legislation from a POV they are comfortable with.
(This means you have to know what Democrats and progressives see as being important.)

3) Stop attending and supporting SEEN TO BE BY DEMOCRATS partisan Republican events.
Going to things like CPAC and NTU is like shooting the FairTax in the foot. These people and events aren't attended by Democrats, but the association pulls the FairTax down. If you go to these things, the FairTax should certainly NOT BE ASSOCIATED with the goals of these events.

4) Start reading/writing to progressives blogs and websites (leave ideological baggage behind).
To influence/conquer you opponent you must (factually) know your opponent.

5) Stop acting like the FairTax emanates from Republican/conservative ideology.
I am trying to tell you, I WOULD NOT send most of my friends to this site to get info on the FairTax because it just WREAKS of partisan Republcian/conservative ideology. I send people to FairTax.org to get balanced, non-partisan, info on the FairTax.

Sometimes when the doctor tells you to stop doing certain things or you're going to die you really need to listen. Doing things that are comfortable or familiar is not the same as doing things that are necessary and effective for achieving your stated goal.

The record of FairTax supporters speaks for itself. Over 10 years now since the FairTax was put into legislation, and neither in a Republican or Democrat controlled House has the Bill ever even gotten a hearing in the W&Ms committee. The blind can even see that FairTax supporters efforts have been an effective dismal failure, based on these facts.

So, are you going to keep doing the same things, and continue to get the same (failed) results, or are you going to listen and learn how to do things differently that may produce the desired results?

Your Choice!

Jabari
Udell,
Senator Mike Gravel completely agrees with that point. He doesn't think congress will ever pass the FairTax. If you're not familiar, check out his website on the National Initiative for Democracy:
http://NI4d.US
As Jim stated in his reply The Fair Tax from the beginning was designed to be non partisan. The reality is we only have a two party system. Typically someone from one party or the other introduces a bill. Naturally the opposition party will assume the bill is more supportive of the introducing party's agenda. This dichotomy is not unique to The Fair Tax Act. Many bills face this same dilemma and yet some how many manage to pass.

The solution is the same as it is for any grassroots bill. We need to place increasing and unrelenting pressure on our politicians to the point they realize not acceding to their constituents demands will result in them losing their jobs. Recently politicians in the Connecticut state legislature introduced a bill that would have essentially stifled the Catholic church. People immediately recognized it as a affront to the 1st amendment and put tremendous pressure on the state legislature to the point where the bill was withdrawn. A crowd of thousands still marched on the state capital today to voice their opposition to the bill. That is the amount of intensity we will need to overcome any prejudice one person or party has against The Fair Tax in order for us to overcome Fair Tax opposition in Congress.
So you put unrelenting pressure on your congressman to support the bill. Will you cross party lines to vote for his oponent if he refuses? Or will you only vote against him in a primary?
Your assuming the opponent supports The Fair Tax. I have found those who support The Fair Tax also are in agreement with me on at least a majority of the issues. Those who oppose The Fair Tax also favor many positions on issues I oppose. These people are overwhelmingly socialists who want to maintain the Federal income tax code and IRS in order to maintain their control over the people. These people can be found in both parties. There is a growing movement in this country to oust the increasing socialist policies imposed on the people. Fair Tax supporters can either join that movement or stand on the sidelines and never see The Fair Tax pass.
By your own admission, Dan, as long as your congressman can make you believe he is in agreement with you on a majority of the issues, he does not need to support the FairTax in order to be certain of your vote.
You and I differ on that. I'd rather have a new representative of either party than an entrenched representative who refuses to do the number one thing this country needs to survive.
Same here.
Maybe I didn't explain myself very clearly but I don't know how you gleaned that from my post. On the contrary. My Congressman, John Larson, opposes the Fair Tax and disagrees with me on most if not all the issues precisely because he is a socialist. As I stated prior those who oppose The Fair Tax also disagree with me on at least most issues because they are socialists. Conversely Conservatives typically support The Fair Tax because it falls in line with their principles of smaller government. Consequently I have not experienced the dilemma of supporting someone who doesn't support The Fair Tax.
Then I suggest you find out who is running against him, get his or her take on the FairTax, and if it is positive, devote as much time as you can to getting rid of Mr. Larson in 21 months.
Have you ever volunteered on a congressional campaign?
Jabari,
I've been saying the same thing for a couple years. I completely gave up on the "FairTaxGroups" board because it became utterly partisan. I've had many ideas of ways we could reach the progressive side of the aisle and I always get shot down. I'm glad to hear the idea respected here.
Some people here know I resigned my former leadership position with AFFT so that I could take a job working for Senator Mike Gravel's presidential campaign. He was the only one of nine candidates on the left who supports the FairTax. Something that happened during my time with the campaign gave me an idea for a strategy we could employ if the national effort will help pass the word.
Backstage at one of the Democratic primary debates, then Senator Joe Biden walked up to me, tapped the FairTax sticker on my shirt and said, "That's an interesting idea; I'd like to learn more about it." I reacted badly because I was there in the employ of one of his opponents and I was startled that he broached the topic, but I grabbed Ken Hoagland who was in the room and suggested to Senator Biden that Ken could answer questions better than I.
Now that Mr. Biden is the Vice President he certainly has the president’s ear and like John McCain often quipped, nothing to do all day except break ties in the Senate and ask about the president’s health. I think it would be a great time for the American people to help him learn about the FairTax. He would have nothing to lose by listening, and with his background and ideology, he may well become the strongest ally the FairTax can hope for in today’s Democratic leadership.
What do you’all think about a national letter-writing campaign to the VP?

David Nelson
727-422-7190
Are we listening to ourselves here? What is the definition of grassroots? Did we not read Ken Hoagland's blog? Just because all of the current co-sponsors happen to belong to the Republican party does not mean the Republican party is any more behind this than the Democratic party. There was only one Republican and one Democratic presidential candidate with enough intestinal fortitude to endorse the Fair Tax. Numerous third parties have sprung up not a one of them endorse it either. Not one state party endorses it that I'm aware of. They all still think we will go away or never get the strength to have the influence to get it done. Even AFFT Houston tells us not to rock the boat too hard. We are currently just a pesky fly to them and until we become a plague it ain't going to happen.

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